Re-spray foils

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Re: Re-spray foils

Post by Peter64 »

Clarification of original post: I am going to repair scratches and chips to both foils. I think we are all in agreement there is no real issue with this. Then I would like to repaint/gelcoat/finish the foils to smarten them up. Intentions: purely cosmetic. Worth noting my foils are currently grey with orange tips, was this legal to start with?

Ok, Here is my interpretation of the rules as they were when I wrote the original post: (I admit I had neglected to read the swanky new proposals. This is not meant as an attack on the old rules, it’s just what I had read at the time).

C.6.1 (a) Routine maintenance such as polishing is permitted.
- Relates to boat as a whole, (hull + appendages?). Ambiguous at best. Personally, refinishing and polishing aren’t that dissimilar, especially when prefixed with ‘such as’. If we have closed rules I don’t think ‘such as’ is appropriate.

C.8.1 (a) Routine maintenance such as polishing and the repair of damage and scratches which does not alter the shape or weight distribution of the item as originally supplied is permitted.
-Relates to hull appendages. I think it is quite clear that a re-spray/paint/finish of the whole foil would not alter the shape or weight distribution.

On to the proposed rules:

C.8.1 (a) Modifications, maintenance and repairs may be carried out but only in accordance with these class rules.
-Understood, but not massively helpful.

C.8.1 (h,I+J) (already quoted in previous post – relating to trailing and leading edge repair)
-I intend to carry out initial repairs in accordance with this, no issues here.
-Then instructed to see C.6.1.5

C.6.1.5 (a) Repairs may be carried out provided the repair:
(i) arises as a result of genuine and unintended damage. (Does wanting to make an old (064) boat look nice again count?)
(ii) is only made to the damaged area and to the minimum extent necessary to reinstate the item to its Originally Supplied condition and shape. (I assume the foils weren’t supplied grey and orange by Ovi’s, possibly already broken).
(ii) only uses Permitted material. (as defined under A.2.2 I would have to use the same white gelcoat used by Ovi’s.)
(iii) complies with these Class Rules. (Fingers crossed!)
and (iv) is done in such a way that the shape, weight distribution, characteristics, bend, performance and function of the item as Originally Supplied are not affected. (Should not be affected).

C.6.1.5 (b) No item/s may be painted other than in the immediate area of a repair or as permitted in C.2.2 above for advertising. (sounds like a no to me, unless we introduce ‘cosmetic repair’ as a new definition to the proposal (also I think you mean to reference C.4.2))

To me, under the rules currently in effect I think I can do it. Under the new proposals, it’s very clear that under a closed rule format I can’t, in fact it explicitly says I can’t.
I do think that the rules leave something unaddressed here in that older boat must therefore be left to show their war-wounds. I can’t afford new foils never-mind a new boat, so I’d like hide the wrinkles of the boat that I can! I think we could benefit from a clause being included to specifically address cosmetics in a way that can be easily gleaned from the rules without having to seek approval from higher up the food chain.
I will seek approval of ICA once I have decided how to approach the job.

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Re: Re-spray foils

Post by bristollad »

They are only proposed rules at the moment so I would just do it Peter

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Re: Re-spray foils

Post by paul manning »

Thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread. There is some level of concern, which has been noted, but to be absolutely clear the proposed rules have specifically been written to permit older or damaged equipment to be repaired but most importantly to ensure the one design nature of the class is maintained and importantly to ensure when work is carried out, it is done so to an equal standard.
It is important to note that there are currently boats with equipment that do not comply with the current class rules and by agreeing to the proposed rules in the upcoming survey will ensure a clearer path in the long term.

To confirm the points regarding foil repair, the proposed class rules are a standard approved wording for World Sailing manufactured classes, so it's not specific to our class. The current wording has been in existence for at least 17 years in our class and over time World Sailing have realised that it doesn't work as intended. What has to be understood with the rules is that they are not meant to penalise the average sailor, but to stop sailors exceeding what is intended. Often the rules are not re-written until tested by protest where an international jury find in favour of a sailor who has done something that the class doesn't want but the rule isn't strong enough. To this end the proposed class rules explain in more detail what is acceptable and in the case of foils, there is a limitation on what can be done to edges, there is a general rule that says you can carry out repairs to the foil as long as the area isn't greater than 5% of the total area (which should cover scratches) but also there is a rule that says if you want to do something else then you ask the measurer through me (class secretary) or directly if you see him at an event. So in the case of a foil that has damage greater than 5% and let's say you want to re-spray them to return them as near as possible to their original condition, as you've got lots of small scratches over the entire area then you contact me with some images and we'll deal with it. This is most specifically to protect the fleet from anyone who decides to re-finish their foils but actually changes the shape or paints them with a high performance coating for instance.
The information on what has been carried out will be held on a class database that a measurer can see if needed.

Once again, thank you for your input, this post is now ended awaiting the class survey to be published.
Paul Manning
MSCA Secretary

Phone 0044 (0)7843 269353
Fax 0044 (0)1621 785735