Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Use this thread to share technique tips or ask questions of the experts. Also discuss boat modifications and rig tuning.
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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:06 pm

can we confirm that this is not sail that you are proposing on the class?????

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:14 pm

you do also realise that the kicker will not work for a square top right ??? secondly what the hell is all this talk about depowring the rigs we had guys out in 35 knots on Sunday and they seem to be doing alright !! i am struggling to work out why you all seem to think a square top will work it might work on a 2 man boat BUT it will not work on the musto it will drive the nose in to the drink at any given opportunity due to the increased sail area at the top ! and then when you depower the rig you will be dragging around about 2/3rds of a sail thats not working ! 18 foot skiffs have 3 rigs to resolve this issue and down size the rig in the breezy stuff !
and then there is gybing !its already diffcult to gybe the musto you will make at least 15% more harder with the extra weight and sail area at the top
i am sorry guys but i still think you are going to kill the class even thinking about doing this its a very bad mistake
Last edited by bristollad on Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:21 pm

Jason,

I will remind you again; this idea is from the sailors; it was first raised in the survey in 2011; it was discussed again at the Perth Skippers meeting then again at both Riva and Carnac.

The class has always been driven by the wishes of the sailors; the class has used on-line surveys every year since 2003 to make decisions that effect the future. The builder has been clear that no change will be enforce; this will all be controlled by the sailors.

You have made your opinion clear; thank you for that. Perhaps now we can see what others think.
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:31 pm

so when was it decided that only a square top will do and as far as i was aware their was a over whelming concern at carnac on the effects on the class
you are force feeding information thats irrelevant you said i the whole reason for a change in sail was to make it more modern right ? not tamper with how the boat sails right ? so why have i just read i article on a square top rig? with not really any information on why it makes the boat will more look modern ?

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:35 pm

bristollad wrote:so when was it decided that ....


Nothing has been decided; there is going to be a test sail done at the request of the members ... that is it ... after we have gained some experience of that the sailors will get to choose ...
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:42 pm

so when did it get requested by the members ?

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:47 pm

bristollad wrote:so when did it get requested by the members ?


Read my post above ... also maybe re-read the opening post of this topic which was started by John Evans.
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:53 pm

Rick wrote:
bristollad wrote:so when was it decided that ....


there is going to be a test sail done at the request of the members


so as my last post when was it requested?

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Thor » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:45 am

I know for sure it was requested at the 2013 Worlds in Perth for Ovi's to investigate opportunities. It may well have been requested prior given it was already a known topic up for discussion by the sailors attending.
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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby DanV193 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:59 am

Interesting article by Sandy. I thought I would add some thoughts as a moth and former Musto sailor.

Moth sailors use very powerful vangs. Fleet standard seems to be 32:1, but many are putting on more powerful purchases. The reasons for this are twofold. Firstly- upwind in a moth as soon as you are foiling you are seeking a very flat sail (25 kts apparent wind in 12 kts)( i have been told that approx 5% fullness is optimum) which to all intents and purposes looks dead flat, much flatter than a Musto main. Secondly you are trying to control the twist, which if you have a fathead sail, requires a lot of load down the leach. Downwind you need the fattest sail you can get as the apparent wind is not that great (you are travelling downwind close to windspeed, and when you gybe apparent is coming from in front of you).

I think the rig dynamics of the Musto are different in a few ways (lowers and trapezes supporting the mast), not quite such a difference in the rig aerodynamics upwind and downwind. It is difficult to take lessons from one boat to inform the other, but I worry that a simple change to a new sail may then necessitate a review of the Musto vang design, if not changed it may just favour stronger sailors who can pull harder until just before the blocks break.

My view is that while it may be necessary to adjust the mast design, to increase their resilience and longevity, the aim of the design review should be limited to that and don't mess around with the sail beyond that which can't be avoided.

I kind of agree with Jason.
Dan Vincent
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Stokes Bay

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby MustoPirate » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:29 am

Hi all,

are there any news regarding prototype production for the new mast?

Kind regards,
Max
Max Döhler - GER 403
German MPSCA - President
m.doehler@gmx.de

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby paul manning » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:09 pm

Hi Max

The Selden mast with the proposed new track will be taken to Derwent (near Ovington Boats) for more trials and will also be taken to Palma.
Paul Manning
MSCA Secretary

Phone 0044 (0)7843 269353
Fax 0044 (0)1621 785735
paulsmanning01@gmail.com
http://www.mustoskiff.com

duchonic

Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby duchonic » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcyVSPZdlRw

interesting video.
at the microphone and in the background!

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Steve tins » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:26 pm

Just brought a new main sail new to the class a bit worried it will be out of date in a year or so not a good feeling at the price it was ? Is there anything happening with the new sail don't no what to do with my new sail as I haven't used it yet any help would be great thanks steve

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:06 pm

hey steve welcome to the class hope your having fun

yea no need to worry at all there is going to be no new sail so your ok anytime soon not even a year down the line :D


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