More laps at worlds

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mike palf
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More laps at worlds

Postby mike palf » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:52 am

Once again a cracking World Championships, thanks to everyone involved!

Was thinking about an extra lap for the races and was wondering what everyones feelings were?

Advantages:
More mark roundings so more opportunities to gain places and therefore more exciting racing
Easier to see marks :D
Less gains for the corner bangers
Smaller course so in theory easier for race committee to move marks quickly if necessary
Keeps fleet closer together

Any thoughts?

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby PaulM » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:29 pm

Mike,

I have the same feeling as you on the extra laps, as it would make for more exciting racing with more opportunities.

I think the major problem is that with a 80 plus (dare I say 100) fleet size you really need the longer 1st beat to spread things out a little otherwise there may be "Karnage" at the top mark!

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby paul manning » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:11 pm

Always good to think about courses etc!

Funnily enough, I'd always thought about a long distance race, where you'd have only one race on the day and it's more of a course taking you around the area of the venue.

Regarding more laps, you could always have a long (say 1.2nm) first beat followed by shorter 2nd and 3rd round by having the leeward gate further up the course, then ending with a longer downwind to the finish where you started...
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mike palf
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby mike palf » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:09 am

Sounds like a good compromise Paul, bonus of spreading everyone out sufficiently by the first mark and a bit more boat handling and place changing for the rest of the race...would that be too many marks for a race committee though? Nothing worse than long delays if marks are getting moved between races.

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Rick » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:11 am

We guide the race team to run 2 lap races but we could easily do 3 or a mix so we can run this through the survey at the end of the year.

If you ran 3 lappers the race team would have less time between the last boat rounding the windward and the first going through the gate so there would be less time to move a mark so course changes could only really be done on a 3 lap config with a replacement mark. This often leads to people getting confused when two windward marks are in place.

We historically advise on 2 laps for the following reasons.

1) The fleet is more spread by the first mark avoiding crashes.
2) More laps = more manoeuvres = more tired sailors and more capsizes. Typically on a windy race day 3 races and the fleet is tired; if you run more laps then the physical toll would be greater. (you could switch down to 3 laps on lighter days)
3) A longer first windward gives you a better chance to recover a poor start; short courses put more emphasis on the start which would probably mean more general recalls
4) Smaller courses would keep the fleet more compact and would probably lead to more crashes.

But, if people want to run 3 laps that is no problem. I can include this in the survey.

One point of note is that if we run mix of 2 and 3 laps races I bet there would be at least one race where the leaders either try to finish a lap early or go of an unnecessary extra lap.
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby mike palf » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:03 am

Perfect topic for next years survey I reckon!

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Rick » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:57 am

mike palf wrote:Perfect topic for next years survey I reckon!


This years ... usually we run it in October so this can be a section ...
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Bruce » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:03 pm

For smaller fleets (say <40) then 3 laps is fine, but more than that, the mark roundings will just become chaos. Whenever we have had 3 laps for nationals or Worlds races in 20knots+ then the front of the fleet laps the back of the fleet, which makes moving marks impossible.

I would say :
Open meetings: 3 laps
Nationals/Worlds: 2 laps (unless it is a small fleet and then 3 laps could be done)

@Mike, don't you just want one very long downwind leg instead :wink:
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby mike palf » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:54 pm

I think everyone would be up for monster downwind races...

...how easy is it to install an uplift all the way back to the start between races?!

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Rick » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:59 am

mike palf wrote:I think everyone would be up for monster downwind races...

...how easy is it to install an uplift all the way back to the start between races?!


Just need a lot of RIBs.
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Whits » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:16 pm

Maybe we should introduce a downwind slalom course, that'd make things interesting!

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby skiffer » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:57 am

Whits wrote:Maybe we should introduce a downwind slalom course, that'd make things interesting!


Yeah; lets suspend the racing rules too and have a demolition derby ...

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby Daniel Henderson » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:59 pm

I think more laps and a shorter course would make things a bit tighter and put more emphasis on boat handling which isnt a bad thing. also stops the heavier guys sailing into the distance in the big breeze and the light guys drifting further ahead in the light winds. i don't think we should be scared of boats getting a bit close, it would improve the fleet in the long run. If it means people are tired at the end of the day then they should be.
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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby skiffer » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:48 pm

Daniel Henderson wrote:.... and put more emphasis on boat handling which isnt a bad thing.


Why is putting more emphasis on boat handling a good thing?

A longer course means there is a chance to develop strategy and tactics ... on short beats often there is only one significant shift meaning if you are on the wrong side of the first shift you are screwed.

With a longer beat you have more opportunity to work perhaps 2 or 3 shifts removing the luck of the first shift ...

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Re: More laps at worlds

Postby dkilsby » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:39 pm

From a personal point of view I would prefer more laps as mark roundings are my favourite bit of the race! More opportunity for place changing and I really enjoy making split second decisions and being in amongst all of the other boats! However, I do understand the challenges regarding mark moving and possible danger the bottom gate getting very busy.

Having said that I do think most Musto sailors give each other a bit of leeway when someone looks out of control and as a result there don't seem to be as many collisions as in slower classes. It is one of the things I like most about the fleet - we've all been there!
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