Re-spray foils

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Peter64
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Re-spray foils

Postby Peter64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:15 pm

Need to do a few repairs to my foils; the usual chips/scratches etc. Already plenty of repairs visible so would like to neaten them up altogether. Is there a suggested way to go about respraying them/materials to use? I remember seeing a rooster video a while back repairing a laser dagger-board and they used plastikote sprays. Any better/alternatives out there?

Ta
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:51 pm

Best, most robust way, is to get them resprayed in gel coat. I've used marine gloss, a brush and patience to good effect before, but you'll probably still have to flatten a little afterwards.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:51 pm

Best, most robust way, is to get them resprayed in gel coat. I've used marine gloss, a brush and patience to good effect before, but you'll probably still have to flatten a little afterwards.
Mark

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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby paul manning » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:41 pm

Please read the class rules before carrying out repairs :D
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:03 am

That's batty if you can't repaint/ refinish old foils ( to original condition and shape ) might as well snap them claim on insurance so we get smooth ones again and watch class premiums go up! The rules need some common sense in them
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby Rick » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:22 am

DangerBoy wrote:That's batty if you can't repaint/ refinish old foils ( to original condition and shape ) might as well snap them claim on insurance so we get smooth ones again and watch class premiums go up! The rules need some common sense in them


Did you actually read the rules before posting that?

I'm not sure anyone would indulge in insurance fraud to upgrade foils.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:30 am

I did read the rules, at best I thought it was ambiguous. So rather than say read the rules, please would you like to enlighten us.

I can refinish a scratch or a damage to the trailing or leading edge, so if I repaint my foils, then I will they were scratched all over! People have been having their foils cosmetically "improved" for years.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby Rick » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:43 am

DangerBoy wrote:I did read the rules.


So what part of the text did you not understand?

Lets assume we are working off the revised rules that David has been working on.

http://www.mustoskiff.com/downloads/MS-%20Class%20Rules%202016%20V6.6%20(002).pdf
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:09 am

C.6.1.2 Fairing of the hull, hull appendages, sails or any other Originally Supplied equipment other than as specifically permitted in these Class Rules is prohibited.C.6.1.3 .

C.6.1.3 MODIFICATIONS
(a) Polishing of the hull, hull appendages, mast, boom and bowsprit is permitted provided that the intention or effect is not to lighten the equipment or improve materials or shape beyond that Originally Supplied


Agreed that makes sense.

C.6.1.4 MAINTENANCE

No mention of hull appendages so I am unable to refinish to original spec for maintenance purposes

C.6.1.5 REPAIR
(a) Repairs may be carried out provided the repair (i) arises as a result of genuine and unintended damage, (ii) is only made to the damaged area and to the minimum extent necessary to reinstate the item to its Originally Supplied condition and shape, (ii) only uses Permitted material, (iii) complies with these Class Rules, and (iv) is done in such a way that the shape, weight distribution, characteristics, bend, performance and function of the item as Originally Supplied are not affected

C.8 HULL APPENDAGES C.8.1 MODIFICATIONS, MAINTENANCE, AND REPAIR (a) Modifications, maintenance, and repairs may be carried out but only in accordance with these Class Rules.

....

(h) The leading edge of each foil below the hull or stock may be sanded, filled and/or painted provided that such work shall not extend more than 20mm aft of the leading edge.
(i) The trailing edge of each foil may be sanded, filled and/or painted provided that such work shall not extend more than 3mm from the rear edge. (j) Repairs to chips in the leading and trailing edge and scratches may be filled and re-finished. The Repair must comply with C.6.1.5. (Advisory note: Fairing of the hull appendages is not permitted except to facilitate localised repair per this rule.)



So if I scratch my foils, accidentally, I can only repair the scratch providing its in the leading or trailing edge and no further extent and only to extent to reinstate to original condition.

Ok, I have a 10 year old boat, many have older. Foils get taken out put in the boat, onto fittings etc and will inevitably get damaged over time. The rules, as i understand they are written do not allow my to refurbish my foils so that the finish is now uniform (that would exceed minimum extent). Therefore under the rules my only course of action if I want foils that are in good condition is to treat them like sails and budget for replacements.

Part of the amazing thing about the boat is that provided the hull is in good shape then an old boat can be competitive, but my interpretation of the rules suggest that is only if money is thrown at them.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby Rick » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:20 am

I am sure a member of the tech committee will no doubt be along soon to correct us if we are wrong but this seems like quite a simple matter to me.

The opening post is about wanting to repair damage so only the section of the rules which applies to repairs are relevant and those other rules you have quoted are not in effect when it comes to repairs.

DangerBoy wrote:Therefore under the rules my only course of action if I want foils that are in good condition is to treat them like sails and budget for replacements.


C.6.1.5 deals with repairs and I don't see anything in their that would lead you to the above assumption.

If the repair is extensive it just requires the approval of the ICA which seems reasonable in order to preserve the purity of one-design racing.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby olisouth » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:10 pm

Mark,

I would say that the following covers a full respray...

C.6.1.5 REPAIR
"and to the minimum extent necessary to reinstate the item to its Originally Supplied condition and shape"

if my foils are scratched (and they are, will be sorting that this winter) then to get them to the original supplied condition they need a full respray in my opinion.

i'm sailing out of class with them in their current state.
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby bristollad » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:57 pm

the new class rules are all up for the vote? right?
Last edited by bristollad on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby DangerBoy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Having sought clarification, damage to the tip can be repaired within the 5% rule. If you wish to cosmetically tidy up your foils then the process is to email the class measures pictures and seek his approval (he is apparently very pragmatic so should be ok).
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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby bristollad » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:22 pm

DangerBoy wrote:Having sought clarification, damage to the tip can be repaired within the 5% rule. If you wish to cosmetically tidy up your foils then the process is to email the class measures pictures and seek his approval (he is apparently very pragmatic so should be ok).


does not state this in the class rules regarding foils

this is what it currently says regarding foils

C.8.1 MODIFICATIONS, MAINTENANCE, AND REPAIR
(a) Modifications, maintenance, and repairs may be carried out but only in accordance with these Class Rules.
(b) The hull appendages may be secured to the boat with shock cord and a snap hook.
(c) The rudder pin may be reduced in length so that it does not protrude below the hull skin, but shall not reduce its structural integrity.
(d) The rudder stock, rudder gantry and bottom securing plate may be bushed but only using bushes supplied by an LM or ICA authorised distributor.
(e) The location and size of the holes in the rudder and daggerboard as Originally Supplied shall not be altered.
(f) The rope handle holes in the daggerboard and rudder shall not be lowered below the line of the deck adjacent to the daggerboard case and rudder stock top (as the case may be), and the daggerboard, rudder, and daggerboard and rudder handles shall not be altered to enable said holes to be lowered below that line.
(g) It is not permitted to vary the designed chord width, profile or shape of either the rudder or the daggerboard from that Originally Supplied.
(h) The leading edge of each foil below the hull or stock may be sanded, filled and/or painted provided that such work shall not extend more than 20mm aft of the leading edge.
(i) The trailing edge of each foil may be sanded, filled and/or painted provided that such work shall not extend more than 3mm from the rear edge.
(j) Repairs to chips in the leading and trailing edge and scratches may be filled and re-finished. The Repair must comply with C.6.1.5. (Advisory note: Fairing of the hull appendages is not permitted except to facilitate localised repair per this rule.)

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Re: Re-spray foils

Postby bristollad » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:52 pm

can it not read like this?


dagger board and rudder
The leading edge,foot,trailing edge and head of each foil my be sanded filled and/or painted if its damaged
to try and best match original finish and shape
It is not permitted to deliberately vary the designed chord width of either foil.


just a thought


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