Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Use this thread to share technique tips or ask questions of the experts. Also discuss boat modifications and rig tuning.
chriswrightlaser
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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby chriswrightlaser » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:41 pm

With regards to were we loose people out of the class, the boat is hard to master and takes 6 months to a years to get up to speed so people give in if its too hard,so a small training sail would be good,
Once people master the boat is it the light wind days that people find it hard to race in handicap fleet ? Could we do a pole what the musto sailors want to happen with regards sail speed / area if the vote is for change, one rig or two rigs? Faster/ bigger sail or try to stay the same.
Its going to be two rigs unless we ban the seldon rig at the worlds which could take 10years to do anyway.
We have 300 sailors with a Musto I would happy to chip in to ask them what they would want, by email or mail. £20. or get 1 person per club to ask around and post here.
With regards the new mast, does the kite halyard and main halyard have to go through the mast, the kite halyard could just go to a block infront of the mast like the RS700 and like the D Zero and RS300 with the main halyard, an external one, we could then seal the top section to stop invertion for people sailing in shallow water and new to the class sailors
Chris

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Musto999 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:14 am

The changes amount to a new boat. The cost of a new mast and sails will be uneconomic for boats numbering up to 300 or 400?
You would create 2 classes. Classic and cheque book.

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby chriswrightlaser » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:36 pm

At carsington we are going to vote no unless its a vast improvement, our third musto sailor is going to wait till the vote is over before joining the fleet now )-: so like most people you are not going to get a new boat to spend three grand in two years time.
I have orderd a D Zero for light wind days now but love the Musto and it will remain the weapon of choice for myself above force 2, the boat is less than 6 grand with split carbon mast as we ordered 4 boats at the same time at Carsington to get a discount .
Can ovingtons do a deal with anyone ordering a new boat now to get the new mast for free if the vote is yes, think the outcome will be a no anyway from the fleet?

Chris

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby sutho » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:36 am

Hi All,

In regard to the new mast could I add/ repeat a view as a sailor from West Australia

WA is a demanding place to sail, its consistently very windy, and we have a long sailing season, our experience us vastly different from European or UK sailors, so is the style and standard of racing (we do not have handicap racing here) .

Because its demanding we have problems here that are not experienced elsewhere. In particular in regard to the mast we have broken more masts here than we have boats (13).

In regard to mast tracks their life expectancy is measured in months, my current boat AUS 511 - 2 years old is now on at least its 6th breakage ie in 2 places its 3rd bit of track (of both varieties), the only real correlation of breakages I have found is time on the water.

I think as part of the obligation of being an international class that we have a product that can be sailed internationally, clearly with these masts that's not the case.

For these reasons in my view the masts need to be changed, and that means change the mainsail too.

Chris Sutherland AUS 511

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:09 am

Do you sail in shallow water by any chance ?

Just out of interest how is the voting going to work? will it be a emailed link to each association member only? As the current voting system allows everyone and anyone to vote obvisley we only want people who actually sail the boat to be voting don't we

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby paul manning » Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:15 am

Morning all

To confirm, all votes that are class specific are only carried out by class members as is the case with the annual survey and we limit one vote per person.
Paul Manning
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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby chriswrightlaser » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:18 am

The wording of the survey and the vote are very important, can we see the wording on this forum before it goes out, I would be happy to see an added part of the vote to be done after the first vote. For example if the vote was for no change to the current mast would it be allowed to use an external main halyard and run the kite haliyard in front of the mast like the 700 fleet, then you could fill the top of the mast with sealed plastic bags on the shallow location to stop inversion,
A new top section could still be made to fit the normal sail to make it stronger if the wording is done right, the best way forward is to give people options so they can sail in there own different sailing conditions, If i sailed out of Hayling by the barr I would like to be able to use an external halyard and see no disadvantage to that system, I never ever noticed any problems with the RS700 with the kite haliyard in front of the mast.
The racing has changed in the uk as most people do not tip the boat in when racing, but if sailing in other countries then thats not the same with large short waves all the time.
How many of the 300 boats are class members, are 1/3 of the member not aware of the vote that is about to happen?
I am very happy with all the effort that has been put in by the class as you can not please all of us at any one time.(-:

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:46 am

chriswrightlaser wrote:The wording of the survey and the vote are very important, can we see the wording on this forum before it goes out


Chris, I think you can entrust the committee to put together an appropriate voting process; the forum isn't the elected committee although the views expressed here are most valuable and are well read by the committee


chriswrightlaser wrote:allowed to use an external main halyard and run the kite haliyard in front of the mast


The use of an external main halyard is beyond the scope of this project and is not something I have ever heard discussed; this is a separate issue and if you want to progress that perhaps the best way is to contact your national rep and ask him to pursue that for you ...
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby chriswrightlaser » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:14 pm

I do not want any changes to the boat as mine works fine even in 25knts of wind, so no need to contact everybody about external halyard, most people just sail the boat and not bother with this formun but if some people are having problems they still need help to look at why things are not going well and try other ways to stop things breaking.
Money is a big problem in the uk for the new to be musto sailor and we have the largest fleet with the largest vote, the 13 boats in Western Australia will still need some help if we all vote no over here, I think the new smaller main might be a better choice to add along the normal main if the conditions are rough in shallow venues, it is effecting my sailing now as we are a man down now due to the vote ahead so the fleet is not growing in the short term jue to the mast track problem i having never seen at any open I have been too )-: Could we do a meeting at Grafham pre 1030 on Saturday start to see where we are at regards the number that might vote yes or no.
Did see a musto with a float on the mast, did not look cool but cheaper than 3 grand.(-:

Have we any info on any damage to any mast at the 2016 worlds and nationals?
Chris

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby paul manning » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:15 pm

I'll try to catch up at the Inlands Chris :D
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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby bristollad » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:19 pm

can i add all the comments i made are not meant to offend or be aggressive

hate forum discussions as comments can be taken the wrong way

btw new forum look is great

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:26 pm

bristollad wrote:can i add all the comments i made are not meant to offend or be aggressive

hate forum discussions as comments can be taken the wrong way

btw new forum look is great


Jason, I am sure everyone is reading your posts as those of a passionate enthusiast ... as long as we all maintain respect for the opinions of others then I am sure we will have no problems ... :D
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby chriswrightlaser » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:22 pm

It does take some time and a lot or reading of old forum posts to see why we are at this point.
The new plastic bolt rope that is less forgiving than the old rope type? but a great improvement to get the sail up,
a few sails that might have come through with the batten pockets a few millimeters closer to the mast track that might cause the problem,
a change in mast track manufacture,
having the lowers very tight with the main out fully and or half vang on the gybe with the downhaul on as well as the very straight mast with tight battens.
So it could be down to bad luck combined with very strong winds with waves and a straight mast, My main is 3cm from max out using the stopper knot on the mainsheet and always have the downhaul off and vang off fully but I am not at the front of the fleet )-:

I had my first wave jumps in 2011 and because of my age now think going slower was a better way to get quicker and still be alive next week
:lol:

all the above is old news if the problem has now been resolved so we can have fun this weekend at Grafham with a great windy forecast (-:

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby ArthurBrett » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:30 am

My experience as a sailmaker and coach is as follows.

1. When a square top is added to a main, the leach then twists more and there is less weather helm as a result.
2. By shortening the foot length, there will also be a reduction in weather helm.
3. I believe that if the proposed main was trialled, the mast would need to be raked further aft to achieve a similar balance to that which is currently experienced.
4. The current leach length would need to be shortened to allow the same working area under the boom.

I hope that this is of some assistance.

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Re: Proposed New Mainsail / Mast / Rig - Merged topic ...

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:43 pm

Rick Perkins. GBR


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