Pole end fitting

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Rick
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Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Mon May 16, 2011 9:07 am

At the weekend I noted a number of Skiffs were missing the pole end plug on the tip of the bowsprite ... this is of course a bit of a safety issue but clearly they fall out. They are required by class rules to keep your fellow sailors safe ... we dont need any core samples taken of each other. Soooo ... use tape to keep 'em in ...

Also; with the block on the top arrangement the tack line is prone to looping around the end of the pole in a capsize (as shown in the below image) and this is quite a pain to sort out with no crew ...

Could we solve both problems by using the type of end plug that seems to be standard in the B14 & Cherub; is there a part that would be the right diameter? Could it be retro fitted to existing bowsprits and would they need to be slightly trimmed in length?

I have forwarded this on to Chris @ Ovis who no doubt has all the answers ...

Edit: I note the 29er is the same as the MPS ... is it the same pole? also the RS200 & 400 are like the ones on the right.


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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Chris T » Tue May 17, 2011 5:52 am

It can be done if the Class wishes to change.

The down sides of the new fitting are; Wears tack line quicker, causes more friction on launch, can split the rube (B14 style)
Upsides; quicker and easier to fit and retro fit, no bearings to break or wear, if designed correctly (as per 29er) would stop tubes splitting.

I would recomend the change if for nothing else the safety side, these will not fall out.

Will check the fit of the 29er fitting, but it is not the same pole so we may need to fabricate a new fitting.

Chris.

See 29er here; http://www.ovingtonboats.com/products/574

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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Tue May 17, 2011 7:29 am

How would you retro fit the end plug fitting to an existing pole?

Would you remove the block or just leave it in and if you did remove it would a blanking plate be needed for strength?

Note that the 29er I looked at had the MPS system but the link above shows the pole end plug solution; have the 29ers already made this change?

Could the next demo boat be done with this fitting as a test?
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby skiffboy » Tue May 17, 2011 9:15 am

I haven't managed to keep the plug in the end of my pole for much more than a couple of days so for that alone I'd support looking at the different fitting. Also, looping the tack line under the pole - it doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough to be a pain. When it does, it's a garunteed capsize to fix so not that much fun.

Chris, what is the 29er fitting made from? Just wondering if it's worth looking into a Delrin or HDPE to minimise friction and wear.

Cheers, Tris.

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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Tue May 17, 2011 9:40 am

skiffboy wrote:Also, looping the tack line under the pole - it doesn't happen often, but it happens often enough to be a pain. When it does, it's a garunteed capsize to fix so not that much fun.


You can fix that without a capsize ... run broard, drop about 1 - 2m of halyard and let the kite fly out forwards; somtimes let it have a little flap and it comes of; then sheet on, & pull the halyard back to the top & off you go ... far better than a trip to the bow which is a certain capsize ...

... anyway back on topic ...
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby sten » Tue May 17, 2011 9:55 am

also tie the tack as close as you can so there isnt enough slack for it to loop around the end of the pole.
while your at it check the pole goes out to maximum length.

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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby GER170 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:24 pm

I'd be weary (pun intended) of adding extra friction to the system.
Low friction is key to a safe launch on the MPS.

Could there be another way of securing the plug? Maybe with a bolt or rivet either side?

Fitting the block further towards the end of the pole (if at all possible, may using a different design block) would also avoid/reduce the risk of snagging.
GER495

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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Tue May 17, 2011 3:39 pm

GER170 wrote:I'd be weary (pun intended) of adding extra friction to the system.
Low friction is key to a safe launch on the MPS.

Could there be another way of securing the plug? Maybe with a bolt or rivet either side?

Fitting the block further towards the end of the pole (if at all possible, may using a different design block) would also avoid/reduce the risk of snagging.


I think the friction will be minimal - I doubt you would tell the difference as it's only a short travel. Plus the issue of it twisting over the end is worth solving. The travel of the halyard will be unaffected by this change.

Given most of the other classes use the end plug solution I guess it works fine ...
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Chris T » Wed May 18, 2011 7:59 am

I will modify an end/pole for testing.
I have the demo boat back here after reminding myself how to sail it again last weekend at Lyme. Going to fit it to this and can make it available to anyone who wishes to give it a go.

Chris.

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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:07 am

Chris T wrote:I will modify an end/pole for testing.
I have the demo boat back here after reminding myself how to sail it again last weekend at Lyme. Going to fit it to this and can make it available to anyone who wishes to give it a go.

Chris.



Chris,

The 29er I looked at on the beach had a MPS style end but your link above shows a plug with a hole; have they made this switch already?

What would be the implications for retro fitting on an existing pole?
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby justin.g.healey » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:24 pm

Rick wrote:
Chris T wrote:I will modify an end/pole for testing.
I have the demo boat back here after reminding myself how to sail it again last weekend at Lyme. Going to fit it to this and can make it available to anyone who wishes to give it a go.

Chris.



Chris,

The 29er I looked at on the beach had a MPS style end but your link above shows a plug with a hole; have they made this switch already?

What would be the implications for retro fitting on an existing pole?



Interesting thread. Have there been any developments on this of late rick?

In my experience the end pole fitting is a much better way to go, However, all instances that I have used one it has been on a skiff with a fixed pole so would be interested in regards to the friction caused. if any?

Ill put up my had as a guinea pig if nobody has bitten so far

Justin
295
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:23 am

justin.g.healey wrote:
Rick wrote:
Chris T wrote:I will modify an end/pole for testing.
I have the demo boat back here after reminding myself how to sail it again last weekend at Lyme. Going to fit it to this and can make it available to anyone who wishes to give it a go.

Chris.



Chris,

The 29er I looked at on the beach had a MPS style end but your link above shows a plug with a hole; have they made this switch already?

What would be the implications for retro fitting on an existing pole?



Interesting thread. Have there been any developments on this of late rick?

In my experience the end pole fitting is a much better way to go, However, all instances that I have used one it has been on a skiff with a fixed pole so would be interested in regards to the friction caused. if any?

Ill put up my had as a guinea pig if nobody has bitten so far

Justin
295


The owners voted against this change in last years survey:

See http://www.mustoskiff.com/survey/2012/results.htm

I thought 100% would vote for this as it makes the boat easier to sail and safer but 59% voted to keep things as they are ... a missed opportunity I feel but it is ultimately up to the owners to make these decisions.
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:59 pm

This came up again ... have people changed their minds now?
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Daniel Henderson » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:50 pm

Is definitely a move forward, I think it is perceived that there will then be an "old version" and a "new version" and may be why it isn't getting voted through
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Re: Pole end fitting

Postby Rick » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:49 am

Daniel Henderson wrote:Is definitely a move forward, I think it is perceived that there will then be an "old version" and a "new version" and may be why it isn't getting voted through


When this change was presented in 2012 the members voted 60 : 40 against the change. I was surprised as I personally thought this would be a better solution; the only downside is the extra friction.
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