Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Use this section to ask any questions over current class rules or to make suggestions over new rules that may be worthy of consideration.
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Rick
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Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Rick » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:26 pm

Insert your comments on this topic for the record.
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby olisouth » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:38 pm

great to see the updates, one query...

C.5.1 (6)

video and / or still cameras, to record video and pictures provided that
the data and output is only used onshore after a race has finished and
not during a race.


I have multiple cameras that allow close range wifi broadcast to a mobile device, others on the market can and do allow streaming direct to youtube etc and this sort of functionality is getting cheaper and more widely available. i think it would be silly to restrict the class to post race production and miss out on potential future benefits of live broadcast, albeit in the far horizon.
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Eborrese » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:57 pm

Regarding portable equipment:

I have problems understanding C 5.1 (2) and C 5.1 (3) in relation to the new C 5.2.

According to C 5.1 (2) and (3), you are allowed to show VMG. VMG is not defined, but can in my interpretation be related to wind direction or to a mark or a location. As we cannot have any wind instruments on board, this would have to be a calculated wind direction - or a mark would be the only applicable option.

How a compass can show speed or VMG according to C 5.1 (2) is difficult for me to understand as a compass can only show direction. VMG and speed should be taken out unless the reason for this is that we can have non-GPS speed/wind sensors on board...

According to C 5.2 such devices may not indicate to the crew ... "location in relation to marks", which from my interpretation also would be VMG towards a mark. This is allowed by C 5.1 (2) and (3), but in my understanding not by C 5.2.

Also - the last sentence in C 5.2 is unclear to me. Is the meaning of this that you can have a device that can show this information, but not let it show it during a race - or is it supposed to prohibit any device that has the capability to show this information? As it is now, it seems to me that you may have a GPS that can show this on your boat, but you are not allowed to use this functionality during a race. This makes sense to me, but is not how I understand how the current rule is interpreted. I support the change if that is the meaning of this - if not, it should be made clear that you cannot have any equipment with this capability on board.

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Whits » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:31 pm

Sorry guys, think I may have spotted a bit of a typo...

C.3.2 (b) "...excluding a trapeze harness and any helmut. A trapeze harness shall have positive buoyancy and shall not weigh more than 3 kilograms. Any helmut shall not weigh more than 2kg.".

What is a helmut and where can I get one? Will it make me sail better? :D

C.5.2 - Should we be allowing devices that show VMG? Are there many other classes that do this apart from the moths?

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby sandyday » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:10 pm

I have a few minor comments on the rules.

Not trying to be difficult - just looking to anticipate future uncertainties... from time to time I spend quite a bit of time reading rules & regs in my day job!


C4.3: the last sentence reads: "Any advertising that involves cutting or any alteration to a sail other than painting or printing shall only be put in place by an LM."

I assume that this sentence is intended to apply only to the spinnaker, not the main, as lots of mains use vinyls for advertising; I guess vinyls wouldnt be covered by "painting or printing". If that is the case, we should change "sail" for "spinnaker" in this sentence.

C5.1: Several comments:

#1
Item 7) states "bags, clips, ties, velcro and tape to secure safety equipment, loose clothing and to stow food and/or drinks and tools (as well as food and drink)."

I read this as allowing the bags, clips etc, but not explicitly allowing the safety equipment, loose clothing and tools themselves.

The comment in brackets "(as well as food and drink)" could be misinterpreted.

It would be much more unambiguous to have a separate list item stating that

"safety equipment, loose clothing, food, drink and tools"

are explicitly allowed

#2
I assume that a paddle may be covered in some events by sailing instructions.

#3
What is the view on the use of masthead floats? Do they count as safety equipment? Or are they currently illegal? If they are not counted as safety equipment, could they be added to this list to help beginners?


C5.2

"Such devices may not indicate to the crew during a race time or distance to or location in relation to marks, start/finish lines, or other boats."

This is slightly unclear. COuld be better as:

"Such devices may not indicate to the crew during a race the time to, the distance to, or the location in relation to marks, start/finish lines, or other boats."


C6.1.3 (j)

"(b) to permit adjustment of the length of the trapeze lines provided that the lines are attached to the mast using the Originally Supplied fitting and are attached to the wing using shockchord"

For older boats which had lacing eyes without ferrules rather than the current t-terminals I assume it is stillI OK to update either to a) lacing eyes with ferrules or b) t-terminals?

This isn't clear to me, (and I'm just about to do it).


C6.1.5
"Repair to the sail exceeding 5% of the area or which are to the luff or bolt rope shall only be made by LM or its designated repairer."

Are we really expected to spend the money to courier the sail to a repairer to repair a frayed luff rope in an older sail?

I recently had the bottom 150mm or so of rope replaced on my old main sail as it had frayed and it jammed in the track; this cost about £20 at my local sailmaker, but would would have been uneconomic if I had had to spend the additional money to courier the sail to an approved repairer and back.

How does this work for people sailing Mustos outside the UK?

Could this be amended to state (say) 5% of the length of the bolt rope for example?

Does this part of rule C6.1.5 regarding the bolt rope over-ride C10.1 (c):

"(c) Routine maintenance such as minor repairs that do not alter the shape of the sail is permitted."

These two rules appear to be at odds in the case of minor repairs to bolt rope.


C8.1

"The rudder stock, rudder gantry and bottom securing plate may be bushed but only using bushes supplied by an LM of ICA authorised distributor."

I guess "LM of" should read "LM or"?

Cheers,

Sandy

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Rick » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:43 pm

Thanks for the comments guys.

Please can you sign your posts with your full name and country as we don't know all the forum ids.
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Daniel Henderson » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:16 pm

"Repair to
the sail exceeding 5% of the area or which are to the luff or bolt rope shall only
be made by LM or its designated repairer. "
so if we need a bolt rope replacing it has to go back to Hydes?
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby bristollad » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:11 pm

think this needs changing as this means you are not allowed to make any repairs in the middle of the foil? or have i missed read it ?

The leading edge of each foil below the hull or stock may be sanded, filled and/or painted provided that such work shall not extend more than 20mm aft of the leading edge.

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby DangerBoy » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:34 pm

deleted - Paul pointed out the obvious cm
Last edited by DangerBoy on Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Rick » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:10 pm

This topic was started to gain feedback on the revised rule set from the Technical Committee; not as a test bed to foster further suggestions to rule changes. Can we try an limit the discussion to the rules in question and if anyone wants to suggest further rule changes then perhaps start a new topic where you present your idea with any necessary diagrams; and if that is welcomed then perhaps take your idea forward via your national rep for consideration.

I will split this topic to try and maintain focus.
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Daniel Henderson » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:52 pm

Could someone please clarify the rule on bolt ropes being repaired by the LM?
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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Djric » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:04 pm

Thank you everyone for your very useful comments. We have tweaked the rules to deal with the points raised. For example, we have removed the reference to "bolt rope" in the repair section, this will allow the replacement of the bolt rope as long as there is no alteration of the luff curve or luff tape. We have also added in a reference to paddles, mast floats etc.

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:34 pm

david he asking if its just Hyde's who are allowed to fix the sail as thats what its implying in the rules

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby Djric » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:52 pm

Hi Jason

I understand what he is asking. My previous post answers that. By removing "bolt rope" from the repair provision it makes it clear that the bolt rope can be replaced by any sailmaker.

The reason why we are very sensitive to anything that can affect luff curve of one design mainsails is because even a 2mm change can have a significant effect on sail shape.

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Re: Comments on the proposed 2017 Class Rules

Postby bristollad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:58 pm

so how about any other repairs ? regarding the sail?


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