C 7.2 Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

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timhill
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C 7.2 Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby timhill » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Hi Guys,

Fitted my new chain plates to my boat today - there is around 20mm thread showing below the nut on the underside of the gunwale when tensioned - my first thought was to cut it off as I'm sure others will do so without thinking to ask if its ok to do so or not -

Can the excess be trimmed? I couldn't see any reference in the class rules...

Thanks

Tim

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paul manning
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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby paul manning » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Tim

Can you confirm that you have the plastic bar that fits to the underside of the gunwale?

If so, it sounds like you might have been sent machine screws that are over long for their purpose, as the ones I saw fitted didn't stick out of the nyloc nut.

I guess they had a thread length of about 25mm long.
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timhill
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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby timhill » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:29 am

Hi Paul,

I've got the new style bar with nylocks from Ovi's via Richard Ekberg and the older style gunwhale with no flattened area under the chain plates. The kit goes together fine but the bolts protrude around 20mm below the black bar. The bolts aren't threaded the whole shaft length and have a short shank before the thread begins. The thread would be around 25mm but the total bolt length around 40mm.

Cheers

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby sutho » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:36 am

Hi Tim,

Merry Christmas

This one is pretty clear C 7.2 a (2) allows you to replace any fitting, you have chosen to get one from Ovingtons, but you could also have gone to your local shop and bought one, it's the same as replacing say a Harken cleat with a Ronstan. You can therefore use any length you choose.

See you at Metung

Chris Sutherland Aus 511

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby paul manning » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:39 am

Chris

No it doesn't mean this.

The rule relates to the fittings for the cleats and blocks. ie the fairlead over the cleat or the lacing eye and spring that mount the block.

If you took your personal interpretation to its extension then you'd say that you could replace your shroud mount chain plates or the rudder gantry or any other part that is not listed. Because they are not listed expressly means that you cannot do anything with them.

Please remember if it does not say you can then you cannot.
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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby Chris Henderson » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi Tim yes as Paul has said you have fitted the correct replacement from Ovingtons and you should have received a fitting guide or instructions to trim the bolts down but please make sure that you don't over tighten them. And as Paul has also stated you have done the correct thing in getting the replacement from Ovingtons as there is no where that says you can replace this fitting with any other make or size so with closed class rules, if it does not say you can then you cannot so well done and thanks for checking. We have submitted the latest version of the rules to ISAF for approval but this did not get posted before the Christmas shutdown so you will have to run this years nationals on the old rules but hopefully when the new ones are published, they will clear up some if not all the questions that are being raised. I will be around during the next few days so if and when you get to Perth and anybody has any rule questions, if you email me on chris@chcovers.wanadoo.co.uk or text me on 07973 735044 I will do my best to come back to you with an answer as soon as possible.
Hope the Nationals all goes well and let the best sailor win
Regards
Chris Henderson

timhill
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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby timhill » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:06 pm

Hi Chris and Paul,

Thanks for your replies. The part came in a plastic bag with no instructions. Therefore I don't have any guidelines on what they're supposed to look like, whether I can trim them or how tight they should be.

The piece is, however, fairly self explanatory. It comes assembled and there's only one way to put them on. But, when assembled the thread sticks out very far from the underside of the black bar - it's a hazard moving around the boat when upside down...somebody will cut themselves with this arrangement.

Paul's earlier comment about a minimal amount of thread sticking out below the black bar leads me to believe we've either been supplied an earlier, overlong version which has now been superceeded, or someone's made a mistake in the design department at Ovi's.

Can some kind of fitting instruction/clarification come from Ovi's, please? I'm happy to leave them alone but they look very odd and out of character with the rest of the boat...

Chris thanks for your offer to be available for comment during our Nationals - I hope we don't have to refer anything contentious to you and we can leave you in peace -

Cheers -

Tim

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby paul manning » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:08 pm

Tim

I'll give Ovington a call as soon as they return to work to confirm.
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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby sutho » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:46 am

Hi Paul

I think you are wrong on your understanding of C 7.2

The rule clearly allows replacement of cleats blocks and fittings ie you can replace fittings. it does place restrictions on blocks and cleats but not fittings ie you can, you most certainly can change bolts, rivets, screws, shackles on the Musto

I agree the rule probably allows you to change the gantry or the chainplates

Chris

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby Chris Henderson » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:15 am

Hi Chris, Paul's understanding of C.7.2. is the same as mine. It allows you, if you are sponsored to change blocks, cleats and their attachment method to the boat to any make as long as the size and function of the fitting is the same and does not require any new holes to be drilled. It does not mean you can change things such as the rudder gantry, chain plates, chute bow bridge or any other component which is made to only fit a MPS.
With regards to screws, bolts, rivets and shackles, then if you can tell me how I would police if they had been changed, then I would be interested to hear, so in Tims case more than happy for him to cut down the bolts, as I belive Ovingtons may have just sent the wroug ones but correct of Tim to check.
The rules will never be perfect, and if unsure always best to check. I hope the new rules once published will clear up as many grey areas as possible, and as I have said before, go out and sail the boat for what it is and the committee will work with the sailors via the survey to keep the rules as tight and simple as we can. If you are unsure how I interpreted any rule, then just ask and never assume you are correct.

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby Serega » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:43 pm

just checked my new bolts and they seem to be also too long, as in Tim's case

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Re: Question on new chain plate by Ovi's

Postby paul manning » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:25 pm

Thanks Sergei

I think Chris Henderson has explained his position on this quite clearly.

I also entirely agree with Tim that over long bolts could cause an injury.
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