In Australia

If you are interested in joining the class and have questions post them here
Lindsay
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Location: Frankston, Australia

Postby Lindsay » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:19 pm

Thanks for that Clarkey

I can't wait until my Musto arrives.

I have to crew on an F18 (hobie tiger) in order to get a sail in today with no Musto and my other boat at the repairer. Thank god the guy I'm crewing for in the F18 has to pay me back and jump up front in my i14 for me tomorrow.

Lindsay
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"You mean the revolver sir?"
"Precisely"

Helmy
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Trailer/Trolley

Postby Helmy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:19 am

Lindsay,
Don't know what you have the 14 on, but I would have thought that a 14 trailer would probably suffice.
Local alternatives are : Mackay trailers in Braeside. Anthony Anderson bought a stock trailer from them a few years ago for his 14 for about A$650. Or you could home build one, the same as the rest of us use for the 14's. It cost me about $600 and a slab of beer for Spongy to weld it up a few years ago. The pattern is pretty simple and standard. You can get a steel shop to cut to length, then sling someone a slab to weld it up. Wheels etc you can get from "Mini Bits". Do you know Bruno Lanati from Frankston YC? He has a welding business in Highett. Let me know if you need measurements.
Trolley : Again, it's easy to fabricate one in Alloy, then get it welded - try Steve Douglas at Castle Yachts in Mordialloc - he's pretty cantankerous, but tell him your a 14 sailor. Or alternatively try Jason King in Frankston, as he's got a guy who does trolleys for his 14's / OK's etc . I'd say stay away from the galvanised steel trolleys - too heavy.
You should drop in to black rock this weekend - WITH the 14 - you can sail the State championships until your Musto arrives. You may also have a better chance of selling it if it's seen around.
Ian (Renilson) - I'd be interested for your performance comparison between Musto and I14, especially in choppy bay conditions ie Black Rock!

Ian Renilson
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Musto Skiffs at Black Rock!

Postby Ian Renilson » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:09 am

Hi Helmy:

I’d LOVE to bring my Musto Skiff to Black Rock and give it a go there!

In fact I WILL do it if you guys get your act together and get a class going out there.

For the nation that invented skiff sailing, you seem remarkably slow to catch on to the new phenomenon of single-handed skiff sailing - is it the ‘not invented here’ syndrome?? :)

The Musto Skiff is such an excellent boat and it is only a matter of time before it will achieve ISAF International status and will spread all over the world - I hope you guys will join us soon.

The best comparison with an I14 is:
• More Fun (single-handed skiff sailing whenever you want it - virtually no time wasted on ‘bimbling’ - it’s like a ‘beach-skiff’)
• Less Hassle (one-design; dead simple - rig it and sail it).
• Less Cost (very little depreciation and running costs).
• Fairer racing (one design racing - you can’t ‘buy speed’).
• Much simpler (less to go wrong)

In light to medium winds a reasonably well sailed modern I14 is quicker than a Musto, but in a stronger breeze the I14 needs to be very well sailed to keep up with the Musto.

As for sailing in a chop - the Musto is a lot more manageable than an I14 - although I never sailed an I14 with a T-Foil. Upwind the boat is very well behaved. Downwind the boat leaps from wave to wave with the bow up and feels much safer than an I14 - look at any picture of a Musto Skiff with the kite up and you will see that the bow is well above the waves.

The Musto Skiff is easier in a chop because:
• It is nearly a foot longer, so it is more stable on the water - 4.55 m (14.9 foot) compared with 4.27 m long (14 foot).
• The sails drive the bow down less because the mast is shorter; the sails are smaller; and the kite is not right up at the masthead.
• The design of the kite seems to lift the bow.
• The Musto is more buoyant and accelerates more quickly in a gust because the all up weight of the boat & crew is considerably lighter (smaller boat; smaller rig; and half the crew weight) - you particularly notice this on the kite sheet, which never loads up much even in the biggest gust - the boat accelerates with the gust.
• The boat has been highly developed to make it simple and very effective - so all you have to do is sail the boat!

I’ve sailed in some pretty hairy conditions and the boat is always very well behaved. Once the kite is flying the bow is lifted and keeps it out of the waves. It’s only in extreme conditions of wind against tide that you have to de-power the kite by pulling it in to slow down to save going down the mine. Other than severe wind against tide conditions I’ve only once done a proper pitch-pole with the kite up - that was on Lake Garda when I got hit by a ‘killer wave’ - and that was SOO exhilarating - I was flung clear around the bow so fast I didn’t know what happened.

If you love skiff sailing and racing, then the Musto Skiff is an ideal for you. But if you enjoy fiddling with boats - going faster than others by spending more money - and having a crew to blame for your mistakes, then I’m sure there are better boats for you! :) :)

Good luck at the State Champs this weekend. Spread the word - the Musto Skiff is on its way!

Happy sailing,

Ian R
Musto Skiff GBR 128
Dalgety Bay SC

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Lindsay
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Postby Lindsay » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:09 pm

Hi Helmy,

I appreciate the suggestions, but Paul Manning from Victor Boats has advised the trailer and trolley won't add anything to the freight cost or take up much space in the container, so I thoguht it would be easier to just get it from them. If I got one made locally wouldn't they need the boat to measure off? The laser guys I know like their trolleys heavy bacuase it stops them floating away, you can just leave them in the water while you're out.

Sorry if I seem stubborn, I'm just sick of stuffing around with bodgy systems that half work, the attraction of the Musto is that everything is a refined design right down to the trailer/trolley combo. With this boat you don't have a crew to help you out so rigging, de-rigging and trailering needs to be pretty easy.

I was planning to sail the 14 states, had a crew lined up etc but I just got a letter telling me my insurance just expired. Once I get the musto I won't sail it for a while so it's not worth re-insuring yet. I'm not looking to sell it, It's only an older boat (AUS25, Glen Tincombe from WA's old boat), I'd rather keep it for what I'd get for it. I'm hoping to come down and have a look though anyway. What's your sail no.? Are you considering a Musto?

Ian, nice write up, you're making it even harder to be patient waiting for my boat!

Lindsay
"Smithers, use the amnesia ray"
"You mean the revolver sir?"
"Precisely"

Helmy
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Location: centre of the sailing earth, black rock, melbourne

Postby Helmy » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:24 am

Hi Lindsay.
You're right about the trailer thing - I've obviously been sailing a development class(es) too long.
Come on down to Black Rock for a beer at least.
I'm on Aus577-purple boat-Frog a la Peche (was Scapa Flow)
(Apologies to the Musto Forum - I'm not looking to commandeer it for 14 promotion purposes) :oops:
And yes I'm interested - after 15 years of 14 sailing, I've got no money, a fantastic ex Worlds winning boat which is obsolete, and I'm sick of spending all my time and money to take some other ungrateful bastard sailing!

Lindsay
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Postby Lindsay » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 am

Haha Helmy, classic.

I'll definately track ya down and say g'day if I make it to Black Rock, I've gotta crew for a mate on his F18 in a club race tomorrow though. If I don't get on that and give myself tendonitis every weekend he doesn't get on the pointy end of the 14 for me.

I assume you're mates with Jason Beebe and probably spoken to him about this already but I'd be more than happy to bring the Musto up for you to have a sail once I get it. It's meant to arrive in the middle of May.

Good luck this weekend.
Last edited by Lindsay on Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Smithers, use the amnesia ray"
"You mean the revolver sir?"
"Precisely"

Ian Renilson
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DVDs

Postby Ian Renilson » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:53 am

BTW, guys - Victor Boats have quite some good DVDs of the Musto Skiff sailing that they would send you if you asked nicely.

The best one was filmed in 2003 at Lake Garda - it's getting a bit old now, but there were some great close-up shots of downwind sailing near the shore in a section called 'Wow!'.

Send Paul Manning of Victor Boats an e-mail with your address - sales@mustoskiff.com

Or ask Jason if he has some copies in Oz.

Happy sailing,
Ian R.

Gavin H
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MUSTO SKIFF V 14

Postby Gavin H » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:09 pm

HELMY
The conditions you find at black rock I would think a t foil 14 would be quicker until the main starts ragging. Once that happened I found the skiff was able to drive throught the gusts quicker. Downwind when its honking we were quicker but the main thing was the 14 went deeper. I sailed against Sten and Ian R for several events last year in a morrison11 although it is now on the market because I can't do the worlds although the regatta at Geelong looks good in January. What are the conditions like there?
As Ian says their are pluses for both classes but at black Rock if the waves are up the cart wheels will be great in either.

As you say 15 years in 14s is getting to long so i'm off try and do something different and hopefully get some more sailing in as I do not need to find some one with a partial frontal labotmy to crew for me.

all the best in the new toy and I hope to sail out their again.
Gav H

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Victor Boats
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Postby Victor Boats » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:37 pm

Lindsay

As Paul said, we set the trailers up before shipping, so it's sorted.
----------------
Paul Manning
Victor Boats
01621 786866

Grant
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Postby Grant » Tue May 02, 2006 10:56 am

I am a I14 sailer and have sailed at Black Rock. We use the latest T foils and have not nosedived there once.
In fact 14's will very very rarely nosedive now.
I find it hard to imagine the Musto being quicker than the 14.

But I would like to see one and sail one one day..they look pretty good.

A local guy in Adelaide is selling the RS 700 (or what ever they are called)...I had a look at them, they seem like a piece of junk...I presume the Musto is better finished.
I heard Jason Beebe is the class rep now...all we need is a boat to test sail

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Rick
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Postby Rick » Tue May 02, 2006 12:55 pm

Grant wrote:I find it hard to imagine the Musto being quicker than the 14.


I don't think a Musto would be faster than a modern I14 but we'd have fun getting quite close .... and for a lot less $$$$

Grant wrote:A local guy in Adelaide is selling the RS 700 (or what ever they are called)...I had a look at them, they seem like a piece of junk...I presume the Musto is better finished.


The MPS is built to a very high standard; the hull by Ovi's fitted as standard with Harken deck gear with a profiled carbon mast from Seleden and Hyde sails.

Here is the customer reviews of the product quality (see Q 15)

http://www.mustoskiff.com/sub-pages/sur ... 5-full.htm

Rick
Rick Perkins. GBR

Ian Renilson
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Postby Ian Renilson » Sat May 06, 2006 8:54 am

Hi Grant:

I hope you get a chance to sail a Musto Skiff soon - there are boats in Oz now and I expect Jason will do his best to get you into one.
I hope you will be impressed and will give us your thoughts.

The Musto Skiff gives high performance skiff sailing and one-design racing in a very simple, well designed, high quality singlehanded boat.

It is a boat for people who love sailing - almost a beach-skiff. And the simplicity/ good design/ high quality makes it much more manageable to sail than you would imagine.

To go sailing there is no hassle:
:arrow: No crew to organise
:arrow: No complicated bits to bimble
:arrow: No latest gear to develop or buy
:arrow: You want a sail? You go for a sail! :)

This gives you:
:arrow: Maximum sailing time
:arrow: Minimum maintenence & depreciation costs
:arrow: Great fun! :D :D

The class already has good International racing across Europe, and it is spreading around the World.

Absolute speed comparisons with other classes are pretty irrelevant - the Musto Skiff gives you high-performance skiff sailing in a boat that stands on its own merits.

I hope to come to Oz to sail a Musto Skiff - I'd like to think we could plan to have a Championship there soon - maybe in 18 months time??

Happy sailing,
Ian R.

Jason Beebe
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Postby Jason Beebe » Tue May 09, 2006 12:37 pm

Hi Guys, Together with Lindsay's boat, another 4 boats are coming out. One of those is for me, giving us two in Brisbane and the remaining three as stock boats. With the level of enquiry I have been receiving, I doubt those boats will last long. I have been out for a few sails now and the boat has lived up to Ian's banter. As soon as I started putting the boat together I was impressed with the simplicity of the deck hardware. When I attached the first rack, it was obvious an awful lot of time had gone into the design to make it simple and effective. Hitting the water the first time in 5-10kn was fantastic, bettered only by the next sail in a 12-25knot offshore breeze. Eight gybes, four swims....I think I did allright. Thanks to Simon Rosier for the tip to wear a snorkel. Particularly, I was impressed with the manageability of the boat. The sails are a sensible size for handling and tacking is no harder than any other trapeze single hander.

How would the fleet feel about a regatta in Australia sooner rather than later. The club I sail from in Brisbane has facilities second to none and would certainly be interested in hosting the class. Alternately, a Sydney Harbour venue would be possible. It would certainly be a shot in the arm for the class here and help us achieve a critical mass through the publicity it would generate.

Ian Renilson
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Postby Ian Renilson » Tue May 09, 2006 12:59 pm

Hi Jason:
Good to hear from you :wink:
Count me in for an event in Oz! :D
I've sailed at Brisbane and Sydney and I know either would be excellent.
You have to select a venue to:
1. Attract visitors
2. Provide maximum publicity for the class.
I fancy Melbourne myself, but I suspect Sydney would give the best visibility for the class.
Happy sailing,
Ian R

Clarkey
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Postby Clarkey » Tue May 09, 2006 5:26 pm

Hi Jason

I think an event in Australia would be a great draw for a number of the British boats, me included. It could also help with the development of the class after the event if there were enough potential buyers so that we did not have to transport them all back to the UK again. Costs of transporting and 2nd hand prices would all have to be taken into account closer to the time.

The downside to that would be that the 2nd hand market in the UK which this year has been screaming out for boats would miss out a bit and therefore 2nd hand values would remain relatively high, but I am sure that with the growing popularity of the class over here that new boats will continue to be sold as quickly as we have seen this past 6 months.

Cheers
Paul
Paul
GBR238


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