49ers & Mustos

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young 1 dan
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Postby young 1 dan » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:02 pm

the reason Ben didnt go out on trapeze is because he said it was well scetchy! and the idea of going out without cunningham was a little wrong, that is why it took so long for the boat to re rite after the capsizing you and Ben did!

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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:15 pm

I have been taught not to put Cunningham on, not really sure why. Anyway if the Cunningham is not on, surely you would want to be out on the wire has you have more power? Cunningham is only used to de power (the way I have been taught anyway).

Anyway I have got over that.. At least nothing got broken. Are you two there again on Saturday/Sunday?

I hope to get out quite a bit during the Christmas holiday, need to get lots of practice in for windy conditions because I am hoping to do the Tiger Trophy in Febuary.. Without smashing up peoples boats!
Chris Bridges
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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:57 pm

The 'grippy thing' is called mole grips.
I'll be there sat afternoon and sun, and the following weekend. Our term ends next Thursday so can do Sat and Sun.

I have to say it does sound a bit strange to me to not use the cunningham in that sort of wind. Both you and Ben are quite light and were obviously going to be overpowered with no way of flattening the sail. Saying that I have never sailed a 49er so I don't know.

Have fun with the 1st aid!
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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:03 pm

Thats the one, mole grips.

With the 49er you flatten the main/depower using shroud tension, I had de powered enough for 18+ knots with a crew weight of 140kg. I am about 76ish so I think we were over that, but to be honest probably should have depowered a bit more (thats where you use the Cunningham). The wind that day didn't look anything like what it was out there.. Do you know what it was out of interest? A really wierd wind, not a common wind at Rutland while I have sailed there, its mostly West / North West.

I am sure I will, although i don't understand how you can fill 8 hours with Dinghy Instructor First Aid!!

See you on Sunday I guess then.

Chris
Chris Bridges

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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:09 pm

The 1st aid I did for the dinghy instructor was 6 hours. And very interesting actually.

don't know what it was that day, no, but seems to me that wind direction is normally southerly-ish at Rutland. And when it's southerly-ish it's always a lot windier on the water than it seems when your standing on the shore. Mind you, I can't remember what it was then. (southerly is when it's blowing off the beach)
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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:28 pm

Yea at the moment it is Southerly, Its not often southly though. Thinking of the race courses we usually have during the summer its mostly Westerly or Northerly..

I love it when its westerly, get some bigish waves for inland water, good fun surfing them in a laser or 420! I remember North Westerly quite well because our coach always sets the courses behind the trees on the peninsula if you look slightly left from the club house, and it annoys us so much!! (No wind when there is loads everywhere else).

Does Oundle sail at Thrapston? Where the schools Easterns are? Last year it was really wierd there, so patchy.. one minute you are just floating the next your straining yourself to hike anymore! Is it normally like that?

What things do you do on the First Aid? I have done a lot with the Marines (CCF) but that doesn't give me a certificate or anything.
Chris Bridges

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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:30 pm

Yes we sail at Thrapston. Yes the wind is pretty shifty- depends on direction though. would be great to sail at Rutland but it's just that little bit too far really. It would mean that we would effectively have 30 mins less on the water every time, plus we've got all the boats set up and have use of the rescue boats etc. And with 35 boats to house I don't think it would be easy to move to be honest. Mind you Thrapston's not bad actually most of the time.

The first aid course was good- practised mouth to mouth on an inflatable person! looked at a real defibrillator. Watched some good video footage and learned about hypothermia. The guy that did our course was really excellent. I did the RYA 1st aid at Rockley in Poole.
Richard Lowndes

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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:09 pm

I think I am doing the RYA one, I guess I am as I am doing it at the Sailing School.

Yea Oundle is lucky to have so many boats. We have 12 420s which are falling apart, 6 of which are beign repaired and sold to stamford and will be replaced with 6 fire flys (argh!!). I guess a lot of your boats are toppers, but still..

I did quite like Thrapston how you could launch without getting wet, and its small but only seems to really be the school that use it a lot so thats OK. All you need really.

Also quite liked being able to stand up quite a way out, although not great for the masts!! (Yes I did go in :oops: ) Plus shifty wind makes it more interesting, and good boat handling comes out (my stronger point, not so good with tactics!! Team Racing gives me a headache... )
Chris Bridges

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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:00 pm

we have about 10 toppers and about 21 420s. I've lost count. you should speak to steve tylecote (Musto sailor at RSC) about team racing. you have probably got his book.

anyway, this thread has got rather off the topic of 49ers, which I know nothing about.
Have you been convinced to buy an MPS yet? would be good to have some more beginners to sail with as well as the experts currently at Rutland!
Richard Lowndes

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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:32 pm

Our coach always talks about his book, its his basis of teaching us because he has never team raced or even competively sailed dinghies before, he just cruises on yachts! We had quite a good coach last year though.

Yes it has got quite off topic..

I have sent an email to Gareth Davies to see if he thinks it will not be too hard, but I don't want to go through the whole getting wet a lot twice, but I don't mind it 1 nad a bit times if that makes sense.

If he reckons it would be easish to pick it up for me (becuase I don't want to be sailing too totally diferent boats that are similar (again if that makes sense) as I will probably mix the two up!) then I will try and sell my old pico and try and beg my parents to make up the rest or fidn someone that by some random chance will buy one for me :)
Chris Bridges

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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:57 pm

ha!
hmm, you may need a few grand to add to the value of the pico...
I would imagine that the MPS and 49er are quite different. I would think from what most people say that you will get wet a lot in a musto whatever you have sailed before. mind you, you've sailed 29ers quite a lot before haven't you, and in my experience the mps is a lot more stable and balanced than the 29er. personally I think it would be quite difficult to sail any 2 man skiff with someone who isn't a regular crew, because it takes time to get to know how the boat works and how each other works. If you're swapping crew all the time, then you're never going to work it out properly. I guess that's why you and Ben found it difficult- you don't normally sail together, and that was his first time out in a 49er too. At least with the musto, you only have to get in tune with the boat, and not someone else as well. The trouble is of course that you effectively have twice as much to do, but funnily enough I'm not finding that part of it too difficult even though I've done very little assymetric sailing before, and I've really only sailed 2 man boats.
In the musto it really is the changing direction (bearing away, heading up, gybing and tacking) that are the difficult bits. It sometimes gets stuck in irons during tacks, which is really annoying and difficult to get out of. for me the most difficult thing at the moment is gybing, and getting the feet position and timing of the kite sheets right. get it wrong, as i do most of the time, and you go swimming. and of course you're 'not allowed' to sit down ever! which I find a bit strange. plus it's odd that you can't really reach, especially in anything remotely windy. you tend to think that reaching is the easiest point to sail, but not in a skiff (but I guess you'd be used to that). I certainly find the downwind part quite easy now- I think it's easier to play the kite and steer at the same time because you can balance the boat much more easily than if there were two of you doing different things and therefore probably over compensating for each other etc.

one of the really good things I'm finding is that at rutland there are so many really helpful people which has made my initial learning experience very enjoyable and not too scary so far. (having said that I'm not going out in anything over a F4 as it's just frustrating!)

I guess you will find it difficult to get a lot of advice on the 49er unless you are prepared to travel to the events all over the country and have got a regular crew.
Richard Lowndes

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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:16 am

Its quite wierd, the 29er is actually less stable than the 49er in light winds, maybe about the same in strong winds but thats hard to judge.

With the 29er you can get away with different crews quite easily, and you can reach quite easily with 3 sails.

With the 49er you can reach, but its knackering and your flat on the wire, althoug if you haul while reaching your probably going to capsize.. 2 sail reach is alright though :)

I don't know about the Musto but with the 49er its amazing relaxed down wind with the genneker up, twin wiring but on inland water you have no chance of pitch polling, the genneker lifts the bow, where as on the 29er it seemed to dip the bow, and it was fairly easy th pitch poll in a lot of breeze.

Yea I reckon i can get about £1800 from the pico, then i need about another 3000ish.. :(
Chris Bridges

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richlowndes
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Postby richlowndes » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:54 pm

Yes on the Musto it lifts the bow. I don't think you can really sail downwind without the kite.

did you sail your 29er at Tide Ride '05? there's someone on the dvd that looks like you.
Richard Lowndes

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Chris Bridges
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Postby Chris Bridges » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:45 pm

Same with the 49er, downwind without the geneker is not a good idea, but 2 sail reaching (beam) works ok, I have no tried 3 sail, but I have people do it and it looked knackering!!

No I didn't, only really sailed the 29er this year, I was sailing a friends boat.

Before that I sailed a whole load of stuff mainly borrowing from friends! I used to sail the Laser 3000 quite a lot before that.
Chris Bridges

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SELSBowbitch
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Postby SELSBowbitch » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:33 pm

Although it's tricky, you can sail a MPS downwind in a blow without the kite. The hard bit is in waves and big breeze but it's possible. At the Whitstable open a couple of years ago we sailed in up to 30kts of breeze with a nasty chop, although the top guys were flying kites further down the fleet were able to sail without as long as they were right back on the rack and heavy enough ( I think Rick managed about 20 pitch-poles that day!).
The trick is to keep the boat going fast and sheet the main on as the boat accelerates on the wave, as long as you don't sail too deep it's fine.

Fact is that the best way (and the sasfest) is to put the kite up and go for it, the lower you are on the wire, the faster it goes, the higher the bow is and the further you fly when it all goes wrong!!
[color=#0040BF]Graeme


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