New to the musto skiff

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Mosler1
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New to the musto skiff

Postby Mosler1 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:52 pm

Hello all,

I have recently purchased a Musto Skiff, from previously sailing double handed and single handed asymmetrics, however I have not sailed dinghies on a regular basis for 5 plus years (although have attended dinghy events on a regular basis (lord Burkett being one of them). I wanted a musto as I wanted to challenge myself and get into high performance skiff sailing (they look bloody good fun), however my experience so far has been some what frustrating. I have read all of the stories of frustration from a beginners point of view when first setting off in a musto, but how can someone such as myself who has been sailing for years, feel like I've never done it before once on a musto, surely it cannot be this difficult! I spend more time in the water than on it! I even broke the trapeze line on one of my outings...

Couple of questions,

1) the boat feels over powered before I've even launched it, I may not have the rig set up correctly, can having the rig set up incorrectly over power the boat? Or at least make it difficult to de-power?

2) is there any training available anywhere, where I can be thought the basics of how to sail it?

3) I have bought K16, and yes it is a brilliant tool, however I cannot put the lessons into practice, as when I do all that seems to happen is the boat gets over powered and I go swimming! Again takes me back to the fact the boat maybe rigged incorrectly.

4) will it get any better!!!

I'm keen not to give up, but I want to sail, and currently all I do is swim.

Any comments would be muchos apriciated!

Matt

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GER170
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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby GER170 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:38 pm

You seem to suffer from the strong camber induced by the fully battened main.

The camber can be dramatically reduced with the Cunningham

Make sure you have 8:1 purchase on the Cunningham and pull this on with approx 40kg tension. That way you have a boat that is very easy to manoeuvre.

Try and meet up with other Musto skiff sailors, I would have never learned to sail the boat without their help.
GER495

Mosler1
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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby Mosler1 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:00 pm

Thank you for your reply,

Can the batten also be the problem? Too loose or tight? Reading between the lines, if I introduced lots of Cunningham, making the sail as flat as possible, this should help in terms of sail ability, as at the moment, it's a little un sailable lol.

I'm under the impression that every little tweak makes a big difference to performance on these boats.

Yes I sail at Yorkshire sales where there are other musto sailors, hopefully I should be able to ask them for a few pointers

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby Rick » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:41 pm

Mosler1 wrote:
4) will it get any better!!!
Matt


Most people have these thoughts ... the answer is yes ...

Have a read of http://www.mustoskiff.com/sub-pages/learning-curve.htm

and http://www.mustoskiff.com/sub-pages/the ... ing-up.htm

More Cunningham defo makes the boat less feisty on the trolley ...

The best thing you can do is hook up with some other owners near you ...

You picked the best time of year to start out :D
Rick Perkins. GBR

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby DangerBoy » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:12 pm

You don't need any more batten tension than taking out the creases in the sail. The batten isn't tapered so any extra tension just makes sail harder to control.

When launching the boat, its light and lively so if you try and hold it in wrong place you'll end up fighting match that the boat can keep up longer than you. You want to be stood at the front of the wing holding boat. Try and pop the battens through so they are on right side for you to set off. You don't need much rudder to sail off the beach, if you are going to put daggerboard in the stand between wing and hull.

If it genuinely feels that overpowered you are not using enough controls, lots of Cunningham and no kicker completely takes load out of top of sail and makes boat very docile. If you try and trapeze like that you'll feel like a yoyo so get that kicker on too.

Kicker bar at red band once you are trapezing and then work on adding everything from there.

There's a few Musto up that way and if you can get help launching that will save you energy to practice sailing. It's really hard work when you're starting out, but it becomes progressively less physical I found.
Mark

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby Mosler1 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:12 pm

Hi all,

Brilliant brilliant advice, thank you so much! Il give it a go, and make sure I'm set up a bit better with the control lines, it just seemed when ever I see a musto sailing even in lighter winds. ( and on K16) it was more stable than me, and that's when I thought I hadn't got the boat set up correctly, and I was just too over powered. I do need to get the rig tension just right as I've found out in the website recently, that couldn't have been helping. However I battle on, (not even braved the kite yet as I thought if I can't master the main sail, I have no chance with the kite too).

Lots of Cunningham to flatten the sail with no kicker on, how about the Downhaul?

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby paul manning » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:08 pm

Just as an additional point, the outhaul needs about a hands width between the boom and the middle of the foot of the sail when you have the cunninghamm and kicker pulled on to the levels recommended earlier.
If you sail with the outhaul tight, this causes the lower leech to collapse and upwind you will spend your time moving in and out on the trapeze.
Paul Manning
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Mosler1
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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby Mosler1 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks Paul,

This is all brilliant advice, Also, is there going to be any training at any point during 2017? I've read that the association has organized training at points?

Regards

Matt

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby DangerBoy » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:43 pm

Downhill and cunningham are the same thing
Mark

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby paul manning » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:57 pm

Hi Matt

There will be training but it's yet to be finalised.

It'll get posted when sorted :D
Paul Manning
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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby campervan » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:31 am

Matt,

You might see some of the north fleet around for the Sail juice event, speak to Jono (516 or 294), he's not as scary as he looks. It would be great to hear from Stewart Walker as well. Tell him I was asking for him.

Re training, I don't know if you consider yourself at the south section of the north fleet or the north section of the south fleet, but in the north there are a few folk new to the boat. I'll get together some training for next year, probably centred on Dalgety Bay, with their permission ( not asked yet.)

My tuppence worth, what a great boat and I couldn't see myself sailing anything else just now. A non sailor described a facebook picture of Jono as ' theres something of a pat our head while rubbing your tummy thing going on here', which I thought was brilliant description. The other thing I have heard form a very accomplished sailor is that he had never sailed a boat where he was always trying to keep on top of the power, previous boats had been all about maxing out power from the rig. I see what he means. Put it all together and I consider the boat a bloody boxing ring, and try to keep on top of it, not as successfully as others around the place, but what fantastic fun. The camaraderie of the challenge is also fantastic, helped by the support of the class assoc, its website and sponsors. Keep going, we have all been through it.

If you want along weekend with a group of mustos come up and see us. You can reach for six miles here without having to turn the corners.

Looking forward to seeing you around.
Kevin

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby stewart » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:31 pm

Hi Matt ( and. Kevin !)
I just looked at forum and saw your post. Its Stewart ( the scottish guy you spoke to the day you brought the skiff upto club) I think it will be sometime in early January when I get up there next. But I think Jonathan and Josh are sailing their skiffs alot of winter series depending on weather.
Keep at it! Its a brilliant boat.
It is probably good to cherry pick the days you go up after Christmas, I usually look at bbc forecast for grassington then add on about 5mph to wind to account for club being higher up, and that seems about right. Its often a few degrees cooler than Guiseley.
Not sure what else to add over and above what others have said. Next time I am up we can look to see your boat looks ok ( or compare with the others before)

As far a launching is concerned I try to put rudder slightly down before putting boat in water, then hold boat by wingbar once it is off trolley. I make sure tiller is on right side before putting boat in water. To put board in I duck underwing bar, put my bum on wingbar to balance it. A good thing about club is people will give you a hand if you ask. It does seem more tricky to launch than other boats I have had but its worth it.
You are better watching the others compared to me as they are a wee bit more stable!!!
Stewart

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby chriswrightlaser » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:14 am

Hi,
The musto does not need a smaller sail for any wind but If i was starting all over again I would get a sail maker to cut down an old sail for windy days so you get more upright time, The four hours round trip to Rutland for myself each week when I started for some good advice saved six months of sailing it the wrong way, a few good words make the boat much easier to sail.
A good mast head float will save your energy and 30mins of time that you could have sailing instead of fighting the boat. Sailing by yourself is so much harder than having a helping hand so drive to a club with a musto sailor to give you tips. If you take a look at the pictures of all the training and opens that are posted on the website will see the rig setup and shape of the sail, take a look how close the foot of the sail goes down to the boom at the front, most people will not pull the cunningham on hard enough, on an old sail it can sometimes rip the sail putting on the correct amount on but it needs to be done as the boat will behave then.
The musto is a standing up boat, when you make the switch from a sitting down boat its very hard, its takes a lot of time to get your standing balance, when the boat takes off you can walk / fall of the back of the boat as it accelerates , looks funny to someone watching (-:
Best way to practic is sailing a normal boat and never sit, always stand all the time. Stand on the edge of a laser one and foot the boat to keep it level with max kicker.
How to sail the musto is more about the way to go about getting advice, on your own is not very easy.
The boat behaves when it is flat, its the word (flat) that need to be discussed and looked at as its easy to say but hard to get over and do at first.

The musto can be sailed without going on the trapeze, if you do go on the trapeze only trapeze off the boat and not the racks to keep more upright times, downwind you can sail the boat just by sitting on the rack and soak, when you get a constant wind then trapeze but try to work on sections of improvemt first,
Hope this helps
Chris

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Re: New to the musto skiff

Postby Musto Musto Man » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:07 pm

Hi There,

Yes, it will get better, but you have to work at it and be prepared to swim regularly until you get it sorted.

I agree with the other posts that it is difficult to learn by yourself, as that is what I have done, as I was the only one at my club for while. But get to a regatta, and talk to others in the class, you can learn in 15 minutes talking to someone what will take half a season to pick up on your own.

My top tips:
    - Pick your days - just like in the K-16 DVD, do not go out in more than 10 knots, until you are happy with the boat.
    - Keep it flat - everyone will tell you this, in some boats you can get away with some heel, but the Musto will spank you.
    - Faster boat + smooth crew work = winner - Every maneuver is easier on a Musto the faster you go, scary as hell when you first try a bear away on the wire, but once you are done it a full noise you realise how much easier it is the faster you are traveling through the water.
    - If in doubt more luff tension - the sail is very powerful and if you are getting blown over a lot, and not going forward much you need more luff tension.
    - On heavy days I tend to set the lowers with less tension to bend the mast more and depower the boat a bit
    - Get a clip for the mainsheet on your harness - This was a big one for me. It allows you to get the kite sorted then have the main handy to pull in once you are up and going. It also allows you to ease the main prior to coming in off the wire before you drop the kite.
    http://www.mustoskiff.com/pimp-my-skiff/harness.htm

Hope that helps, keep working on it because they are fantastic boats.
NZL 210


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