Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

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s2ie
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Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby s2ie » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:10 pm

Hi There,

I'm hoping to buy an MPS over the winter an was having a look through the website in the hope of finding a buyers guide - is there something lurking somewhere I've missed that someone could please point me to?

Great website by the way, seems a very friendly and active class!

Cheers,

Stewart

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Re: Buyers Guide?

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:07 am

That is a good question ... I think if there was a buyers guide it would say "check for general wear & tear" ...

The boats have changed little since the first boat built.

The minor chages are detailed here:

http://www.mustoskiff.com/sub-pages/pro ... lution.htm

Beyond that it is just a matter of checking for knocks, bashes etc which could the the result of heavy use/abuse.

The boat is very well put together and old boats hold up well as is reflected in the price of used boats.

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Re: Buyers Guide?

Postby paul manning » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:45 am

That is a good point.

Aside from Rick's direction, I'm not sure whether there are any other points aside from the usual such as condition of sails etc.

I'll have a think and see what can come up with!
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Re: Buyers Guide?

Postby DanV193 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:01 pm

They are remarkably robust boats, but areas where they will typically show wear...

Hull (Foam sandwich so easily dented) -can be dinged by pebbles - trapeze hooks etc. as long as hull is not punctured it really only makes a cosmetic difference.
Hull/ deck join in area supported by gunwhale hung trolleys
Gunwhale scars where spinnaker uphaul/ downhaul has been dragged over them during capsize recovery.

Centreboard (can pick up knocks)
Rudder (ditto - but less of a problem)

Mast - sail feeder - worth checking, but easily fixed.

Covers - obvious

Trolley/ trailer - check bearings etc.

Sails - generally look for wear and tear - main sails are really long lasting - spinnakers lose their performance more quickly.

Things I would pay a premium for
- spare sails and best sails
- Good foil bag

Bottom Line...All the hardware on a Musto can be fixed and the difference in speed betwen boats is normally down to the software
Dan Vincent
GBR 193
Stokes Bay

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Re: Buyers Guide?

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:46 pm

DanV193 wrote:spinnakers lose their performance more quickly.


I would say spinnakers hold their performance really well in straight lines ... but it's on the handling is where a new one is better.

Because of the slippery coating on a new kite it goes up & down easier ... and for a beginner a new kite is really helpful as it is much easier to recover during a capsize. Old kites seem to stick to everything in the water and are much harder to pull through the water and into the chute.

It's a bugger really as you don't really want to be using a new kite to learn to sail the boat but I would argue that this the time you will get most benefit from it's "out of the bag" slippery finish.

Old sails are still fast ... Ian Renilson managed a 4th at the 2007 Garda worlds with sails that were so well used it was quite frankly an embarressment to the rest of the fleet behind him with nice new sails :lol:

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby Rick » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:52 pm

NOTE: I have added a link on the used boats page to this topic as I am certain it will be useful to many and have made it a sticky topic so it will stay at the top of the list.

Also ... this will help people determin the age of a boat.

1999 - Sail numbers of prototype boats issues numbers 1 to 7

2000 - First Production Boat Sail Number 050

2001 - First boat built in 2001 was 065

2002 - First boat built in 2002 was 085

2003 - First boat built in 2003 was 114

2004 - First boat built in 2004 was 146

2005 - First boat built in 2005 was 181

2006 - First boat built in 2006 was 221

2007 - First boat built in 2007 was 289

2008 - First boat built in 2008 was 355

2009 - First boat built in 2009 was 398

2010 - First boat built in 2010 was 422

But amount (and type) of usage is more what determines value.

These figures are from this page:

http://www.mustoskiff.com/class-data.htm

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby andrewbellamy » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:05 pm

Hi,

I've added a comment somewhere else on here about used boat buying, but I couldn't find it...

I'd add:

- DON'T underestimate the cost of the "pimps" on a pimped boat - if you go through the latest "pimped" musto setup, it may look simple and cheap to get the latest pimps, but adding them all onto the price of the boat can be reasonably expensive... I bought my boat which had never been raced, never been seriously used - and I pimped it after attending the "Iver Ahlman Pimp Clinic" in Germany. Adding up the time and cost of the ropes, blocks, twiddly bits, etc etc soon added up... If its fully pimped, i'd reckon thats worth a good few hundred quid on the price...

- DO get a second set of sails if you can...

- DO check the bottom of the boat for lumps, bumps, etc in the sunlight. As a professional yacht designer I can tell you that Ovi makes fantastic hulls - but as any GRP construction, they don't like point loads like trapeze hooks bashing into them.

- DO get a mast bag if you intend to winter the boat outside, or even keep the boat outside for extended periods during sailing season

- DO make sure a rig tensioning device is included... This wasn't with mine, and it was a bitch to pay so much for the boat and then have to immediately give the chandler 150 quid for a tensioning device.. (I think this is ok in most cases- my boat had been hiding in a garage with an owner who didn't sail much, so it was lost)

- DO Check the boom carefully for bashes, fractures etc.. The sheer physics of carbon booms which are not controlled with stopper not etc and perpedicular loading against steel wires like shrouds means they won't last long in these cases...



Otherwise, i'd agree with the comments here. Once i'd got mine sorted and pimped, its cost me nearly nothing for the rest of the year, and my winter jobs list isn't very big at all considering the other boats i've had...

Cheers

Andrew

GB(E)R 298

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby Rick » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:14 am

If you get all those bits you'd be doing well; I have always kept the boat breaker for the next boat ... had I included it the price would have been higher; I guess it all boils down to price and what you are getting for your money.

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby bristollad » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:15 pm

For anyone buying a older boat make sure you have a look at the spinnaker throat bolts under the gunhaul as i never and have now found out after the second sail on my boat that on the port side the bolts have almost pulled through due to the rig tension on the newer boats they have updated this problem by have 5 bolts each side and not 4 so now i have got to take them all out epoxy all the holes and over size the bolts grrrrrr so make sure you check them guys also before i even hit the water my mast snapped god knows why but would be a good idea to look at the boat with mast up rig tension on! as i never also i have a leak in mine but not sure how you would know this with out putting it water i guess just check all obvious places such as centre board casing gunhauls hull etc other then these things which i have now to sort properly take a day my boat is great for the money well finger crossed but i guess who's to say this wouldn't happen to a boat in the 200 sail number hope these tips help

jason gbr 64

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby Gavryn » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:11 pm

I think it comes down to how well the boat is looked after my boat is 097 and is in very good condition it still has original mast with no repairs the boom is the same the hull is in good condition so I don't think it rely matters what the age of the boat is as long it has been looked after and has good sails.

Gavin brewer
Stokes bay
097

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:33 pm

nope your right but still need to check bud :)

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Re: Buyers Guide - please add your tips here ...

Postby bristollad » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:13 pm

bristollad wrote:For anyone buying a older boat make sure you have a look at the spinnaker throat bolts under the gunhaul as i never and have now found out after the second sail on my boat that on the port side the bolts have almost pulled through due to the rig tension on the newer boats they have updated this problem by have 5 bolts each side and not 4 so now i have got to take them all out epoxy all the holes and over size the bolts grrrrrr so make sure you check them guys also before i even hit the water my mast snapped god knows why but would be a good idea to look at the boat with mast up rig tension on! as i never also i have a leak in mine but not sure how you would know this with out putting it water i guess just check all obvious places such as centre board casing gunhauls hull etc other then these things which i have now to sort properly take a day my boat is great for the money well finger crossed but i guess who's to say this wouldn't happen to a boat in the 200 sail number hope these tips help

jason gbr 64


this was a easy fix in the end take out nuts and bolts then ovi sent me some washers that fitted to the curve of the gunhaule i then re sealed the holes with white silicone and re fitted the bolts so no dramas :D


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